GRILLJOB Cast Stainless Steel 304 Grill Burner, 15 3/4 x 4 3/4 in, Upgraded Replacement for CISC, Fits Members Mark Bakers Chef Grand Hall BBQ Grills 608SB, Monarch-04A 04B 4.8 out of 5 stars 8 $68.80 $ 68. Members Mark Cast Iron Cooking Grids.Set of 3. Fits Members Mark Grill Models: 720-0582,Members Mark 720-0582. Dimensions: 31 1/8 x 19 1/4.
- Grand Hall Grill 608sb Instruction Manual Pdf
- Grand Hall 608sb Grill Parts
- Grand Hall Grill 608sb Instruction Manual Youtube
- Grand Hall Grill 608sb Instruction Manual Online
BTW, I want to thank Daniel K. Schuster (aka Dannos) who postedhis notes on doing a LP->NG conversionand was a wealth of information and support while I did mine.If you have any comments/suggestions/additions/etc. to this,send me an Email .. and also your favorite BBQ grill recipe! ;-)Back to main BBQ Grill page or Alek's personal home page - © 2002-2012 www.komar.org
| There's so much BBQ stuff on my web site that even I use the searchform to the left to find stuff! ;-) Disclaimer: I am NOT a gas/grill/whatever expert. Anything you do based on what is written here you do at your own risk. Converting the Member's Mark BBQ Grill to Natural Gas VOIDS the warrenty. Do NOT callme if you melt your grill, burn down your house, etc. |
A - Why would one convert from Propane (LP) to Natural Gas (NG) (2003_08_02)
A-1: What are the advantages to converting from Propane (LP) to Natural Gas (NG)?
A-1: (2002_07_08)There are two main reasons - convienence and cost.a. Convienence: With LP, you have to make sure you have enough gas in your tank(s) and refill as needed. And unless youhave a second tank, you will probably run out halfway through your bigfamily BBQ - dooooppppp! ;-) BTW, running the 3 mains on HIGH, you will go through a 20 pound tank of LP in about 8 hours. With NG (assuming you have a utility gas line to your house), it is always there;you just turn the handle and you are grilling!
b. Cost: A 20 pound tank of LP is about 425,000 BTU'sand costs about $13 to refill (more if you tank exchange). My Natural Gas is billed in Therms (100,000 BTU) and once you factor in allof the taxes, is about 50 cents/Therm - i.e. just over $2 per 'equivelentBTU's' tank of Propane - that's a savings of over $10/tank! ;-)
A-2: What are the disadvantages to converting from Propane (LP) to Natural Gas (NG)?
A-2: (2002_07_10)There are actually several disadvantages to converting.
a. With LP, you can move your BBQ around, whereas with NG, the locationbecomes somewhat fixed .. although a long flex gas pipe can give yousome mobility.
b. With LP, you can cook even if the gas company has some sort of problem delivering gas to your house (disaster recovery! ;-)
c. Converting requires some time/expense (although not much).
d. You can not go 'back/forth' between LP & NG without some work, and onceyou have done LP->NG, it is harder to go back.
e. Once you have converted, you will probably BBQ more! ;-)
A-3: What tools do I need to do the LP->NG conversion?
A-3: (2003_08_02)Standard tools: screwdrivers, needle nose pliers, wrenches, etc.You can get by with a standard set of drill bits, but a 'numbered' setof bits is extremely useful, but you only need to drill a few holes,so hopefully you can borrow these. You will need some pipe joint compoundfor all threaded connectors - essential if you don't want to blow yourself up!A digital camera is quite useful so you can take pictures of things as youtake 'em apart - that way you can put 'em back togather again correctly - especially useful for the orifices and valves.It is helpful, but not neccessaryto know the regulated gas pressure - either call your gas company orbuild your own manometer for a couple of bucks - this is actually useful for flow analysis too.
A-4: How long will it take to do the LP-NG conversion?
A-4: (2002_07_08)Probably about an hour or so to do the 3 mains, side, and back burners.However, as noted below, you will want to do your initial drill holeson the small side, and drill 'em bigger as needed .. so there will besome additional 'futz factor' time in there as you test the grill; so maybea good excuse to tell your spouse you need to make some steaks! ;-)
A-5: How much will it cost to do the LP-NG conversion?
A-5: (2002_08_05)Basically nothing - all you are doing is basically drilling ahandful of holes a little bit bigger. Note that if you have a'conversion kit', you pretty much have to do all of this stuffanyway, so why not save yourself a few bucks! ;-)
B - Issues with getting Natural Gas to the BBQ Grill (2006_09_05)
B-1: What type of pipe/connectors do I need?B-1: (2003_09_03)Assuming you allready have NG for your house, you will need tofind a place to 'T' off of that and run a line outside your house close to your grill. Standard 'iron pipe' or the 'flex gas' pipecan be used - just be sure to follow code. Pay close attention tothe run-length/pipe-diameter/BTU-usage .. there are specs that tellyou what diameter you will need given the run length and BTU requirement.Factory 'max' on the Member's Mark is all three mains on high plus theside burner (back burner should not be operated with mains are running),so this would be 66,000 BTU - to be on the safe side, I'd just say 80,000.Pipe is cheap and it's a pain to re-run it .. err on the big side ..and be careful using 'skinny' pipe the last few feet to the grill.What I did is shown in the 'gas-line' web page.
B-2: What about using quick-disconnects/rubber flex line to the BBQ Grill?
B-2: (2006_09_05)I don't quite see the point in using a quick-disconnect.It's not like you are going to want to move your 200 pound grill somewhere!And if you look at these, it's typically a pretty skinny diameter pipewhere the disconnect is, so this can prevent adaquate gas flow.While you CAN run rubber flex line to the BBQ grill, be careful withthe inside diameter. Because you have to deliver a higher volume of gaswith NG, I had problems using 1/4' inside-diameter hoses .. and ended upusing a 3-foot 1/2' flex-metal connector (typically used for dryers,hot water heaters, etc.). Using a manometer or measuring flow rates atthe gas meter will help you determine if you have a 'lack of adaquate flow'to the BBQ grill itself, especially when all three burners are on HIGH,plus the side burner.UPDATE: CraigB points out that 'Here in Florida we have to have QD's in order to make life much easier prior to a hurricane. I have two-grills and a Weber fireplace that have to be disconnected prior to the 120 MPH winds, and moved to our overhang which is then shuttered in' - hurricanes aren't an issue inColorado, but great point Craig - thanks! ;-)
B-3: Do I need a regulator?
B-3: (2003_09_03)You should not. Before the pressure enters your house, it shouldgo through a regulator and flow meter installed by the gas company. See what this looks line on the gas-line web page.
B-4: What is the NG pressure?
B-4: (2003_02_12)Most people report around 7' water pressure, but you should checkwith your gas company to make sure. Or better yet, build your own manometer for a few bucksand actually measure it - quite easy to do.
B-5: How do I make sure there are no leaks?
B-5: (2002_07_08)As mentioned numerous other places, you should be applying a soapy watersolution to ANY work that you do not only along the way, but at the end.I put about 1/3 Palmolive and 2/3 water in a spray bottle and I went througha couple of these during my work. Here are more details and pictures.
Grand Hall Grill 608sb Instruction Manual Pdf
C - Some Misc. Physics of Gasses (2008_09_17)
C-1: What is the relationship between orifice size and BTU output?C-1: (2002_07_14)Assuming adaquate air for clean combustion (ALL blue flames areyour friend), BTU output is a functionof the 'burn energy' of the gas (higher for Propane versus Natural Gas),the size of the gas orifice (larger is more BTU's), and the input pressure (more pressure equal more flow rate). Grillparts has an excellent chart outlining this herethat given a desired BTU output (and type of gas and pressure), what sizeorifice you need. And a similar, but more complete/detailed chart isavailable from ISC.While I think this is a good 'first-start', I seemed to haveother factors going on that required slightly larger diameters.
C-2: How do I measure BTU output?
C-2: (2002_09_03)One can attempt to measure BTU output by measuring temperatures,but this can be time consuming and was not all the repeatable;especially if there is any wind. It turns out you have an excellentway to measure BTU output - the cubic feet/hour of the NG as measured by your gas meter.Fire up the grill and use your stop watch to measure how manyseconds it takes for a cubic foot (or whatever) or NG to flow,and then calculate the Cubic Feet/Hour. The gas company measures your usage in terms of cubic feetalthough typically shows it on the bill in terms ofhundreds of Cubic Feet which is often abbreviated CCF. One Cubic Foot of gas is nominally 1,000 BTU, but there will be a conversionfactor on the bill to convert to therms whichtakes into account altitude, temperature, and energy content.For me, that multiplier is about 0.8, sofor instance, if I measure 75 Cubic Feet/hour (CFH), this would be 60,000 BTU's;assuming perfect combustion.
C-3: How much CFH/BTU do I need and what was your experience?
C-3: (2002_07_14)You MUST have enough NG flowing into the grill itself before you startdrilling out the orifices. As noted above, it is fairly easy to measureCubic Feet/Hour and convert that to BTU's (it's about one-to-one at sea level).I also had the manometer hooked up, so in certain cases, I could measurethe gas pressure (at the side burner) and see how it was dropping under load.So after being 'reasonably' sure there were no ignition sources nearby (for thefirst couple of tests, gas is just venting into the atmosphere), I did the following:Conclusions: I initially used a 4' rubber 'LP' hose that has an insidediameter of 1/4' .. this did NOT provide adaquate flow to the grill.The 3' 1/2' flex pipe (with 1/2' to 3/8' connector at grill)does some flow restriction. Even so, it appears that the grill connectoritself (I recall this was 5/16' inner diameter) and the manifold furtherlimits the CFH. Note that the manifold has an 'LP' sticker on it - I kindawonder if there is a larger diameter version that says 'NG' on it.The drop in gas pressure concerns me a bit and suggests that I wouldbe better off with a shorter run from the regulator and/or even largerdiameter pipe so that it could reduce the pressure drop when under load.
C-4: Are there altitude issues?
C-4: (2008_09_17)I live in Boulder, Colorado (actually Lafayette) and having an aeronautical engineering degree, I said to myself that altitude should NOT play a factor here - relative pressure (i.e. 7' WC) is the same amount of gas at sea level as it is a mile high, and as long as I had enough air to get good combustion (no yellow flames), it should not matter. However, it turns out that forvarious appliances they DO sell high altitude orifices, which are SMALLERthan those for sea level. My theory on that is that it is easier to de-ratethe appliance with an orifice change than it is to ensure one has enough volume of air (at the thinner higher altitude) to support complete combustion.Or optionally you could put a turbo and/or supercharger on your burnersto insure enough air for a proper stoichiometric mixture.So I'm not sure what is going on there .. but the bottom line is I DO believe there is some sort of altitude affects going on, and you will need more CFH at a mile high to generate the same BTU's as at sea level.
C-5: Is LP or NG dangerous?
C-5: (2002_07_08)Don't be a winner of a Darwin Award!Not only can LP and/or NG cook your steaks, it can melt your grilland/or blow up your house (or worse). Be careful, be sure to check for leaks,and hire a professional if in any doubt.
D - Actually converting the Grill (2012_04_02)
D-1: What diameters did you end up drilling out to?D-1: (2012_04_02)For the main burners, I ended up with #40-0.098' (stock is #55-0.052') for the orifice (HIGH) and #54-0.055' (stock is ~#61-0.039') for the control valve (LOW). YES, #40 is pretty darn big; butI was trying to insure that with all three main burners on HIGH, I was ableto deliver adaquate gas to heat the grill up quickly. Lets just say I cansear my steaks pretty darn good! ;-)For the side burner, I ended up with #47-0.078' (stock is #59-0.041') for the orifice (HIGH) and did NOT need to change the control valve for LOW.
For the back burner, I ended up with #50-0.070' (stock is #61-0.039')for the orifice (HIGH) and #54-0.055' (stock is not selectable) for the control valve (LOW). As noted below, it's prettyeasy to change the back burner from OFF/ON to OFF/HIGH/LOW. While I wouldlike an even lower setting, I was worried about flameouts due to wind,so I erred on the conservative side. BTW, there's a bit of grease onthese parts, and my wife wasn't too happy when they spilled onto the kitchen tileso keep things neat.
MartinB sent the following related Email in April/2012 - good info to share - thanks!
'Your website was very helpful in my conversion project. I started with the Members Mark Conversion Kit and drilled out the orifices using your notes. I found that for the Main Burner I realized good results with a #44 orifice and #58 for the control valve Low orifice. The Side Burner turned out a lot of heat with a #51. The Back Burner ran very well using a #54. The conversion kit utilizes a NG Regulator which may explain that all sizes are running 4 sizes smaller than your notes indicate. Again, starting our small as you suggested allowed me zero in on the correct size. Feel free to include this information on your website for anyone else ready to enjoy the freedom of cooking with Natural Gas.'
Adobe zii illustrator 2019. D-2: How do I drill out the orifices?
D-2: (2002_07_11)The orifice diameter controls how much gas flow occurs in the HIGH setting (ON in the case of the back burner) and therefore sets the maximum BTU output. If this is too small, your grill won't heat up fast enough and/or be hot enoughin general. Make this too big and you will 'overrate' your grill - you mightnot have enough air for clean combustion (yellow flames are bad) and/or other stuff like maybe even melting your grill I guess! ;-)Click here to see exactly how do drill out the orifices.
D-3: How do I drill out the control valves?
D-3: (2002_07_11)The control valves regulate the flow of gas by turning it OFF and ON and provide variable output. How does it do that? Remember that the orifice diameter is fixed, so at the OFF setting, no gas flows. At the HIGH setting, the control valve lets 'lots' through, since the orifice will regulate. And at the LOW setting, the control valve has a smaller opening than the orifice, so it becomes the limiting factor. Any position in between gets some volume of gas in between. Click here to see exactly how do drill out the control valves.
D-4: How do I make the back burner variable in heat?
D-4: (2002_08_17)Look carefully at thecontrol valve section above.For the back burner, the 'ring' section only allows rotationof 90 degrees for OFF/ON .. rather than 180 for OFF/HIGH/LOWas with all other control valves. It does this because the 'groove'which the D-ring sits is only 90 degrees. So .. you have a coupleof choices on how you can handle this:
- Drill out the groove (somehow) for 180 degrees of motion
- Remove the D-ring, so then it won't hit the stop
- SWAP 'ring' sections with one of the mains.
I did the later, since I want to have fine control over the back burnerand 'know' where the stops are .. whereas for the main burners, I'm notas concerned - plus I can see the control knob positions easier relativeto the other ones .. plus if I go to far and it flames out, I typicallyhave other burners on, and it will re-ignite (I swapped with the center one).Note that after this, you will need to drill out the back burner controlvalve as outlined above - see D-1 for what I used - you'll need to doexperimentation on your own .. and I recommend doing this at night soyou can see the flames. Since the back burner is typically lit by itself,you want to drill it conservatively large, since you do NOT want thisto flame out, since there is no nearby burner going to re-ignite it. Although I have not done too much 'spit BBQ'ing', I really like havingthis tuneability .. as I can crank it down if I feel I'm charring theoutside of the chicken too much.
Grand Hall 608sb Grill Parts
E - Testing/Tuning the LP->NG Conversion (2002_08_17)
E-1: How to do I determine if I drilled things out enough?E-1: (2002_07_14)As mentioned above, there are several things you can look at. I emphasizethat I'm not a 'grill expert' (or Certified Grill Expert - CGE for thosethat get the inside joke! ;-) so these are the 'futz' factors I used andyou can can tune/tweek your grill how you want it. Note that all of theabove applies even if you leave your grill on Propane, but want to fiddlewith it a bit. The 'BTU/orifice size' charts would probably be the 'official' approach, but these weren't that useful to me. Looking atthe CFH and converting that to BTU's was darn useful .. and also watchingthe temperature (and just grilling) was how I arrived at what I did.
E-2: What should the flames look like?
E-2: (2002_08_17)Click here to see some pictures of Alek playing around .. ;-)
E-3: What should the flames REALLY look like?
E-3: (2002_08_17)A common question is what should the flames look like. I have a somepictures of before-LP/after-NG (and after-LP - FIRE! ;-) that will showyou what this looks like. Click here to see various flames shots.
F - Safety Notes (2008_04_03)
F-1: How do I make sure there are no leaks?F-1: (2002_07_08)As mentioned numerous other places, you should be applying a soapy watersolution to ANY work that you do not only along the way, but at the end.I put about 1/3 Palmolive and 2/3 water in a spray bottle and I went througha couple of these during my work. Here are more details and pictures.
F-2: How do I use the manometer to check for leaks?
F-2: (2006_01_07)First, you need a manometerwhich will cost you about a buck to make.Plug this into the side burner orifice as shown, and with the gas supply OFF,open the side burner control to HIGH. Then open one of the MAINS to HIGH;and then close it when manometer is in a stable position - it shouldbe level, if it's not, you goofed something up. While leavingthe side burner control on HIGH, turn the gas supply ON. The manometer shouldrespond and eventually stabilize at the regulated gas pressure. Mark thislocation, and then turn the gas supply OFF. The manometer reading should NOT move; this is basically testing everything downstream from the gas supply valve up to control valves of the BBQ. Note that it does not test any leaks past that; such as the tubing to the back burner or the orifice's themselves - you will need to use the soapy stray approach on those. Standard disclaimerapplies, but nothing is completely airtight - I feel that if you takeat least 5 minutes to bleed off an inch of pressure, you are probably OK.
F-3: What do I do if I have a leak?
F-3: (2002_07_08)Usually, this will simply require tighting the connection.In some cases, you should put pipe dope and/or pipe tape inplace seal things - definately for 'pipe' fittings, questionablefor flare fittings. Always be careful tightening to make sure youdon't bend any pipes in the process.
F-4: What do I do if I smell gas?
F-4: (2008_04_03)Sending me an Email is NOT the right thing to do .. as actually happened whensomeone emails me asking'There seems to be a gas smell coming from our outdoor gas grill (which is already hooked up to natural gas). How do we UNHOOK the gas to the grill? Thanks for responding.'I responded to this person saying'Uhhhhh .. if you are smelling gas, you might consider calling 911 rather than sending out an Email' .. but my Email bounced .. so unknown if Darwin'ism got applied here.
G - Personal Experiences & Misc. Other Notes (2008_03_18)
G-0: How does one use liquid oxygen to REALLY sear your steaks?G-0: (2002_08_05) Yea .. you can get quite a 'sear' using liquid oxygen to BBQ (archival link)
Grand Hall Grill 608sb Instruction Manual Youtube
G-1: Does this REALLY work?
G-1: (2002_08_05) I've been grilling for months with Natural Gas and love it.
Daniel K. Schuster (aka Dannos) posted his notes on doing a LP->NG conversion and says he hasn't cook meat in his oven since!
Here is anEmail from Roy Brotherhood with some detailed notes on his conversion.
G-2: What about converting other grills?
G-3: (2002_08_05) The process should be quite similar on other grills.For instance, you can buy a gas conversion kit for the Virco grill,but owners have told me that if they were to do it over again, theywould probably just drill it out - you end up doing pretty much allof the above anyway. I recently assisted a friend convert his Kenmore grill and it was uneventful using these notes.
Grand Hall Grill 608sb Instruction Manual Online
G-3: I converted my grill to NG - what do I to with the LP tank gauge?
G-3: (2002_08_07) See if anyone with an older MM grill (this feature was introduced in 2002)wants to buy it - anyone want to buy mine?!? ;-) Orhotwire the connectors with a paper clipso that italways reads FULL ;-)
G-4: Can I convert my grill from NG to LP?
G-4: (2008_03_18) You can .. but this is the opposite of everythingwritten above .. and making holes SMALLER is MUCH harder than drilling'em out to be bigger. If you do decide to do this, be very careful sinceif you say, drop some solder in there to close up the hole, if it meltsand/or opens up, then you will have a blow torch on your hands - I personallywould not recommend/try this. An approach recommended by WallD isto use a small ball peen hammer to close (or nearly close) the opening, and then drill it back out. Brass is fairly soft, but be careful not toruin the threads. Note that if you find someone who wants toconvert their grill from LP->NG, you could swap valves/orifices with 'em - here's what the label on their grillshould look like.Otherwise, your best bet is probably to contact the manufacturer, but again,I would be very careful doing an NG->LP conversion.
G-5: Your How-To Guide is AWESOME .. can I Email you to say thanks and/or buy you a beer?!?
G-5: (2007_11_09) I'm delighted my web page has been helpful to 'ya - click here to Email me and/or buy me a beer - a surprising number of people actually do - thanks in advance! ;-)